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Craps in California Indian casinoThis is a discussion thread · 8 replies DocTCW: The following is taken from a trip report I made in another group regarding a recent trip we just made to Harrah's Rincon Hotel/Casino "near" San Diego:Craps was the weirdest of all. I got to where I felt stupid playing it. With each roll of the dice, six new blue and six new red cards were taken from either a red shoe or a blue shoe (each containing only Aces thru sixes) and placed into numbered boxes. Then the dice were thrown, one red and one blue, and the numbers on the dice determined which cards in which box were turned over, revealing THE number. It then proceeded as regular craps but with double odds only. The stupid thing about it is that everyone at the table would look down at the numbers on the dice, which until the cards were turned over were meaningless. Crazy California rules. Tom
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alan: when were you at Rincon? Under a recent ruling from the Calif Attorney Generals office all "dice" are to be eliminated from "california craps."Barona used to have the same method as Rincon but now uses the method used at Morongo only cards dealt from two shoes, no dice thrown. I wonder if Rincon is going to "buck" the AG on this one???
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DocTCW: We were there one week ago today, as well as Thursday. I'm telling you it was idiotic. They might as well have drawn from two other shoes to determine which of the cards to turn over!! It was senseless.Tom
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Alan Shank: [nq:1]We were there one week ago today, as well as Thursday. I'm telling you it was idiotic. They might as well have drawn from two other shoes to determine which of the cards to turn over!! It was senseless.[/nq]I have played "card craps" many times at Colusa, CA and Cache Creek, CA. Colusa uses the same two sets of six cards, just shuffling them around in between dice rolls. The dice are blue and red, each die "pointing" to the card of that color. Once (intelligent) people get used to it, they stop focusing on the dice and focus on the result given by the cards. There is nothing "senseless" about it. It gives the same random results as throwing regular dice. It's just a way around the law. If you live in California and don't want to drive to Nevada to play craps, that's the game. Deal with it. I haven't been to either casino since MoneyLA's report about the AG ruling, so I don't know whether they've eliminated the dice step or not. I am going on vacation soon, so I won't have a chance to check it out before September. Cheers, Alan Shank
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kjun: So what is the rationale behind a law that does not allow dice in craps and why would people in Calif. put up with such a law?
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alan: kjun... there are many of us who would love to have regular dice craps in California... but a proposition on the ballot last november that would have legalized dice craps as ell as live roulette and would have taken off the limits for the number of slot machines at Indian casinos was voted down.there is no plan, at present, for another "initiative" to change the laws again. the california constitution prohibits dice games. the dice/cards combination was intended to skirt the law and worked for a while. but the attorney general is now getting "tough" since the proposition to legalize dice was defeated. morongo, near palm springs, for example, recently was told to remove several hundred slot machines that the AG's office said violated the cap of 2,000 morongo had the extra machines also hoping that the cap would be removed by the voters. if you go to the high limit area now at morongo you will see more open space because thats where the "extra machines" were removed.
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kjun: Thanx Alan It's tough when the state constitution prohibits dice games. When I first heard about that I thought it might be some sort of dark move by casinos to rid themselves of craps as a live table game, leaving only high-house-edge slot and video games.
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DocTCW: Well, Alan, each to his own. For me the excitement of having a decision made by the dice is worth not having to wait to see which cards are turned over. Maybe I have been playing craps too long. Maybe what I witnessed is a stupid game. I know it was a "fair" game, and statistically true, but nevertheless, it was a GAME called "craps." Not "craps cards." And I thought it was a little foolish.Tom
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Alan Shank: [nq:1]Well, Alan, each to his own. For me the excitement of having a decision made by the dice is worth not having to wait to see which cards are turned over. Maybe I have been playing craps too long.[/nq]If you had a choice between playing card craps at a casino 20 minutes' drive from your house, or driving for 3 hours and playing with dice, then paying for a hotel and driving back 3 hours, which would you choose? All other things being equal, I would rather play the "pure dice" game, but they are not equal. [nq:1]Maybe what I witnessed is a stupid game. I know it was a "fair" game, and statistically true, but nevertheless, it was a GAME called "craps." Not "craps cards." And I thought it was a little foolish.[/nq] So, you're saying it's "foolish" for the Indian casinos in California to offer this version of craps, instead of nothing? Cheers, Alan Shank
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