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RE: (Long) Please critique this exceprt from my new Draw Poker book. page 3This is a discussion thread · 46 replies Paul G: [nq:1]I read it very well, and I stick by my statement, that the only thing you teach me about Draw poker in this essay, which I already knew, is that limping with 99xxx is a mistake.[/nq]Assuming a blind structure, as in Paradise's game, don't limp-open period. Pass with 9s, unless first to act on the button. Then raise-open unless the players in the SB and BB are extremely aggressive and tricky. (which was sometimes the case when they spread 5-10 but now is practically non-existent in the 3-6 or 1-2) It would not hurt your game too much too pass 9s always. Except, of course, if you're in the SB alone with the BB. Then raise, or occasionally limp in front of him with medium pairs such as 8s, 9s, 10s, to balance your strategy. Of course, if everyone in the Paradise games adopts this strategy, then TD won't be making $20 an hour anymore. Like he said, profit comes from opponent's mistakes. -paul g.
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TD Lowball: [nq:2]With the information in this book you will be able ... pull 5-10BB/hr playing draw at Paradise with fairly low varience.[/nq][nq:1]5 BB/hr with my eyes closed. Unfortunately, 3-6 now seems to have gone the way of the 5-10. Very sad.[/nq] There was some 3-6 yesterday, but since I am being a nit, and trying to build up my bankroll from $30, I didn't have the money to wade in. If only Paradise would promote the draw games. For a while the 3-6 Draw was raked like the 1-2 Draw, making it the most profitable game on PP. All the big money draw has moved to 24hpoker. That 5/10 PL game is the biggest online draw game in the world. The daily 2/4 PL is plenty big as well. The rake free 25/50ct game is roughly comperable to the Paradise 1-2 game. If 24hpoker was smart they would introduce limit draw, and LOWBALL !! TD Lowball Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com
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TD Lowball: [nq:2]Try reading it again, TD Lowball[/nq][nq:1]I read it very well, and I stick by my statement, that the only thing you teach me about Draw ... general point that the "compound error" scenario really often only involves a single initial error followed by several correct decisions.[/nq] IMHO that a very important point, becuase unlike in loose hold'em games, the mistake never reverses itself. [nq:1]Even this point, I don't think you make very well there are some implications to this fact that you ... decisions after the initial limp are correct, the limp could not possibly have an e.v. of less than -1 SB.[/nq] Yes it could. Because it can cost money to play the hand correctly to the end. For example, you play some trash in EP, the flop fits you sort-of. you stay in, but have to fold at the end. [nq:1]Your essay sounds promising, however, in how you started to say that in draw poker you can't chase the way you can in holdem, but you didn't explain it very well.[/nq] = Some people would say that this truth is more costly in poker games with more betting rounds (because this mistake gets drawn out across betting rounds), and not as relavent to draw poker. I feel it is the opposite, for two reasons. The first reason is the massive edges involved in draw poker. And the second is that the pots never get big enough to cross the threshhold to where it is correct and . This latter situation comes up often in loose hold1em and omaha poker games.=This is why you can't chase. 1.) Any made hand vs Draw situation favors the made hand. 2.) The edges in typical draw poker hand range from 4-1 to 12-1 against.You will NEVER get the pot odds to justify chasing that. In a loose hold'em game you will, often. 3.) The implied odds don't exisit, becuse there are only two bettingrounds, and there is rarely any post draw raising or overcalling. Draw poker is a game of small pots and big edges. The thing is, the big edges make up for the small pots. TD Lowball Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com
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TD Lowball: [nq:2]I read it very well, and I stick by my ... already knew, is that limping with 99xxx is a mistake.[/nq][nq:1]Assuming a blind structure, as in Paradise's game, don't limp-open period. Pass with 9s, unless first to act on the ... strategy, then TD won't be making $20 an hour anymore. Like he said, profit comes from opponent's mistakes. -paul g.[/nq] Shushh. You are reducing the need for my book. :-) BTW there are 1 or 2 tricky players to whome you should slowroll all sorts of hands on the button, but otherwise yes. In fact the person who you should do this too, is from Los Angeles which leads me to beleive it's YOU ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Writing is hard. The points I wanted to make in that section were. #1 Money comes from your opponents mistakes, the vast majority of which of the are type of getting into -EV situations. #2 Playing weak hands is silly (This will be explained in a later section, about how hand values improve in a pass-out game) #3 Many mistakes are self reinforcing becuase the play of the hand was correct, after the initial mistake. Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com
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Paul G: [nq:1]3.) The implied odds don't exisit, becuse there are only two betting rounds, and there is rarely any post draw raising or overcalling.[/nq]You can't BELIEVE the overcalls I get sometimes. Sometimes I just can't believe it myself, even though I'm raking in the chips. Image! -paul g.
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Paul G: [nq:1]If only Paradise would promote the draw games. For a while the 3-6 Draw was raked like the 1-2 Draw, ... to the Paradise 1-2 game. If 24hpoker was smart they would introduce limit draw, and LOWBALL !! TD Lowball [/nq]I don't play tourneys, but why not have some one-table draw tourneys? I might support it a little. I, of course, would also like to see lowball. Either 8-handed or 5-handed would be fine by me, as long as they've got something bigger than 1-2. Geez, did you check out the draw action when it first started? OMG, it was great. There were three or four 5-10 games going. And many players absolutely clueless. It would be like that if they offered lowball, I am sure. They must have the ability to offer lowball. Just spread the draw game they offer now, and, uh, turn the lowball switch on, I guess. woohoo! I mentioned earlier that I had talked it up at some b&m joints when Planet started lowball. I was playing at Normandie regularly and occasionally Emeryville and Bakersfield. Whatta buncha dinosaurs. I swore that newbies were paying me off with pairs of 8s. In LOWBALL! Still, I just couldn't get much interest from these old lowball geezers. Honestly. I tellya what. If Paradise were to spread lowball, I would personally travel to all the lowball games in this state. I could still do that for Planet, if they were interested. I could pass out special coupons or sumthin with welcome bonuses. I'd hit the LA circuit. The Emeryville game. The Friday night lowball games in other parts of the state. We could revive lowball and forever raise and "gimme two" in cyberspace. It might be, uh, Paradise. -paul g.
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TD Lowball: [nq:1]Do I get royalties? heh.[/nq]You'll get credit, but this text is so wholly different. Basicly I am de 2+2'ifiying it. As well as including discussion of alot of general poker topics as they apply to real poker. I.e 5 card draw. TD Lowball Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com
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TD Lowball: [nq:2]3.) The implied odds don't exisit, becuse there are only two betting rounds, and there is rarely any post draw raising or overcalling.[/nq][nq:1]You can't BELIEVE the overcalls I get sometimes. Sometimes I just can't believe it myself, even though I'm raking in the chips. Image! -paul g.[/nq] My Paradise story. I once capped predraw with a pat flush, and got two calls post draw. A player not involved in the hand commented that I had bad table image since two players called my pat hand. TD Lowball Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com
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TD Lowball: [nq:2]If only Paradise would promote the draw games. For a ... would introduce limit draw, and LOWBALL !! TD Lowball [/nq][nq:1]I don't play tourneys, but why not have some one-table draw tourneys? I might support it a little.[/nq] 24h Poker has regular PL Draw tourney's (3/10/25) including one with a grand prize of 10 grand. Also a recent tourney with a prize of seat in a B&M PL Draw tourney. They also have 25+2 PL Draw SnG's. [nq:1]I, of course, would also like to see lowball.[/nq] Me Too. It's the game that won the west. [nq:1]Either 8-handed or 5-handed would be fine by me, as long as they've got something bigger than 1-2.[/nq] 1/2 3/6 5/10 and 1/2 NL should be plenty for everyone. [nq:1]Geez, did you check out the draw action when it first started? OMG, it was great. There were three or four 5-10 games going. And many players absolutely clueless. It would be like that if they offered lowball, I am sure.[/nq] Yes especially if they promoted it. Hold'em players absolutly suck at draw games, and lowball just gets them confused. [nq:1]They must have the ability to offer lowball. Just spread the draw game they offer now, and, uh, turn the ... off with pairs of 8s. In LOWBALL! Still, I just couldn't get much interest from these old lowball geezers. Honestly.[/nq] Wisenburg and Caro calculated that roughly %40-50 of all hands are playable if you are a loose lowball player. [nq:1]I tellya what. If Paradise were to spread lowball, I would personally travel to all the lowball games in this ... bonuses. I'd hit the LA circuit. The Emeryville game. The Friday night lowball games in other parts of the state.[/nq] ROughly speaking right now. WHere is there lowball. My understanding is $20 Limit at the Oaks, and 30-60 at the commerce. Where else? [nq:1]We could revive lowball and forever raise and "gimme two" in cyberspace. It might be, uh, Paradise. -paul g.[/nq] Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com
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