[nq:1]You can't BELIEVE the overcalls, [nq:2]You can't BELIEVE the overcalls, [nq:1]A small

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Asha34:

A small point, but lowball was not the game that won the west. That was Faro. Lo ball was invented in the late thirties when draw poker (unlike "stud horse poker") was declared legal in California.
Ashley Adams

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James L. Hankins :

[nq:1]You can't BELIEVE the overcalls I get sometimes. Sometimes I just can't believe it myself, even though I'm raking in the chips. Image! -paul g.[/nq]
What do you mean exactly by "overcall"?

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TD Lowball:

[nq:2]You can't BELIEVE the overcalls I get sometimes. Sometimes I just can't believe it myself, even though I'm raking in the chips. Image! -paul g.[/nq]
[nq:1]What do you mean exactly by "overcall"?[/nq]
If you bet, and one person calls, and then a second person calls. That second call is called an overcall. Ordinairly you need to be very strong to make an overcall.
TD Lowball

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TD Lowball:

[nq:1]A small point, but lowball was not the game that won the west. That was Faro. Lo ball was invented in the late thirties when draw poker (unlike "stud horse poker") was declared legal in California. Ashley Adams[/nq]
[nq:2]Me Too. It's the game that won the west.[/nq]
It's a hidden inside reference to Mike Wisenburg's book, "Free Money."

TD Lowball

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James L. Hankins :

[nq:1]If you bet, and one person calls, and then a second person calls. That second call is called an overcall. Ordinairly you need to be very strong to make an overcall. TD Lowball [/nq]
A curious play. Wouldn't it almost always be more correct to raise rather than overcall?

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TD Lowball:

[nq:2]If you bet, and one person calls, and then a ... be very strong to make an overcall. TD Lowball [/nq]
[nq:1]A curious play. Wouldn't it almost always be more correct to raise rather than overcall?[/nq]
Think of it this way, BTW it's implied that this is happening in a late betting round.
The first person to bet on the river, is saying,
"I think I have the best hand, better than everyone else's"

The first caller is saying
"I think I have the best hand, better than everyone else's and your hand (which you think is better than better than everyone else's) too."

The second caller is saying
"Nahh my hand is better than that of one person who thought he had the best hand, and a second person who thought he had better than the best."

The reason you don't raise, is because either the first bettor or caller could have a really good hand. If you have the nut's then raise.

TD Lowball
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Paul G:

[nq:2]A curious play. Wouldn't it almost always be more correct to raiserather than overcall?[/nq]
[nq:1]Think of it this way, BTW it's implied that this is happening in a late betting round. The first person ... first bettor or caller could have a really good hand. If you have the nut's then raise. TD Lowball [/nq]
Good explanation TD. Anyway, uh, sometimes they wanna call me from the NEXT table also.
I know it's wise to push players in the direction that they are naturally inclined. In other words, (as you addressed), make calling stations think that you're a bluffer and then don't bluff them. Make tightasses think that you're another tightass and then bluff them. But I'll tellya. I can make the tightest of tightasses turn into calling stations. I swear, I am amazed at the success of my image. I've gotten pretty good at getting people to think I'm nuts. (and I have absolutely zero ego problem with regard to having people think that I am ONE LOONEY TUNE). This pays off big in draw high and lowball where you really need an image to get your hands paid off after the draw.
-paul g.
PS: Hey TD. Can I assume that you've studied John Fox's book?

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Paul G:

[nq:1]Yes especially if they promoted it. Hold'em players absolutly suck at draw games,[/nq]
So so true. All these new kids on the block think a pair of kings is something to get excited about, let alone kings-UP! OMG, kings-up, bet the farm.
[nq:2]I mentioned earlier that I had talked it up at ... justcouldn't get much interest from these old lowball geezers. Honestly.[/nq]
[nq:1]Wisenburg and Caro calculated that roughly %40-50 of all hands are playable if you are a loose lowball player.[/nq]
I like how they said in Brunson's book about high draw players giving lowball a shot and y'just never see them again. They called it "lowball oblivion". lol I saw this happen many many times.
[nq:1]ROughly speaking right now. WHere is there lowball. My understanding is $20 Limit at the Oaks, and 30-60 at the commerce. Where else?[/nq]Well the Normandie in Gardena is the "Lowball Capitol of the World." $15-30 and $20-40. And I have not been to Hawaiian Gardens lately but they were spreading a $15. Besides the Oaks, I am sure there must still be some Friday nighters around the Bay Area and Northern California. Perhaps Gilroy, Benicia, Napa, etc. I dunno. I haven't made the rounds since last winter. Last time I was in Sacramento the straight $20 had become a day game only. It broke up before dark so the oldtimers could get home for beddy-bye time.

I don't even know if it's still going. A shame. Eight years ago there was still PLENTY of lowball in Sacramento. Maybe they still have a straight $6 there, I dunno. I'll find out in a couple months from now. Tracy had a Friday nighter for the longest time. I hear it is in trou ble. I also hear Garden City is in trouble. Amazing. A few years back Lodi had a $4-10 a couple nights a week. Wait till I make the rounds this winter and I'll keep ya filled in TD.
Best,
-paul g.

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TD Lowball:

[nq:2]Yes especially if they promoted it. Hold'em players absolutly suck at draw games,[/nq]
[nq:1]So so true. All these new kids on the block think a pair of kings is something to get excited about, let alone kings-UP! OMG, kings-up, bet the farm.[/nq]
Also alot of them play Jacks or better. Unfortunatly the Paradise games are tightening up a bit recently, there are at least 10 pro's patrolling the games. Some of the regular fish are still around, but the big producers of the past few months are gone.
So it's harder to get pure berry patch tables.
Another problem is when the whole table is a bunch of tight newbie's/semi pro's, who slowroll and checkraise constantly. You should not do that, it tighten's up the game.
[nq:1]Planet newbies couldn't[/nq]
[nq:2]Wisenburg and Caro calculated that roughly %40-50 of all hands are playable if you are a loose lowball player.[/nq]
[nq:1]I like how they said in Brunson's book about high draw players giving lowball a shot and y'just never see them again. They called it "lowball oblivion". lol I saw this happen many many times.[/nq]
Of course, Lowball while very frustrating is just alot faster, and it's easier to get good hands, and you are rarely the huge underdog you can be in draw. In lowball either you are drawing dead, or are at worst a 3-1 dog. OTH there is alot of bluffing.
The number of Pat sevens and wheel draws I get while playing Draw hi is just amazing.
[nq:2]ROughly speaking right now. WHere is there lowball. My understanding is $20 Limit at the Oaks, and 30-60 at the commerce. Where else?[/nq]
[nq:1]Well the Normandie in Gardena is the "Lowball Capitol of the World." $15-30 and $20-40. And I have not been ... a week. Wait till I make the rounds this winter and I'll keep ya filled in TD. Best, -paul g.[/nq]
I'd love to play lowball in a real cardroom, but with the smallest games being 15-30 or bigger makes it darn hard to get started. Is there any action in Monterey CA? I don't know where you live, but I will be in Monterey some time around new years. And would love to meet up.

I've always wondered why the card clubs don't spread 5-10 draw, with a joker, blinds and guts to open. It would be a popular game, about the size of a typical 3-6 hold'em game. Use blinds of 3-5 and drop the small blind.

When I was dealing a Charity casino, I spread 5/10 California draw with a $2 ante, This was the most popular poker game in the room. Alot of people said they prefered draw poker to Hold'em. So there are still many people interested in playing Draw out there.
TD Lowball
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TD Lowball:

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RE: (Long) Please critique this exceprt from my new Draw Poker book. page 4

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