"trivial" had quotations for a, The kicker is anything but, online you

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Philip:

The kicker is anything but trivial. It is half your hand and very often just as important as the higher card.
If you are playing several hands with one high card I would suggest playing tighter and sticking to pairs, suited connectors, and face cards.
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TheRealSCU:

A bad beat is not losing to a better kicker, that is just shitty. A bad beat is when someone catches the card they need to beat your good hand. Like going all in preflop with AA vs 55 and them hitting their set. Or making a big bet on 4th street and they hit their gutshot straight on river. I've taken many bad beats, the best thing to do is move on. If they are putting you on tilt you might want to take a break for a while. SCU~
[nq:1]Anyone have any advice on how to handle bad beats (mostly losing a very strong hand to a hand with ... I often lose the extremely tough decisions in my largest pots. Any sound advice would be of extreme value, thanks.[/nq]
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Zachary Tyler:

"trivial" had quotations for a reason (indicates sarcasm). I was wondering if anyone has any tips on how to avoid beats like this. I know you guys have bad beats like this, and I was hoping some of the more experienced players can tell me what they've learned from them. Not necessarily just playing stronger starting hands (which is always sound advice), but any method of picking up on the fact that you've gotten beat by a kicker, before the cards get turned. Thanks.

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EGK:

If you lose a hand with a bad kicker, that hardly constitutes a bad beat. As you've said, folding an ace and a rag is a pretty easy laydown even with an ace on board in the face of a large raise.
What I'd call bad beats are when people call and when they only have 2 or 3 outs. There's not much you can do about that except to quit playing. Bad players do get lucky.
[nq:1]Stop playing hands with weak kickers...or get used to letting them go unless the kicker pairs (still a dangerous hand ... better kicker). I have no problem folding A-rag with an ace on board...especially to someone who comes over the top.[/nq]
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"There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes)

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phil:

online you can only go by their betting patterns.
Do they slow play? Did they raise pre-flop? Are they tight, loose, aggressive, passive?
Play A(2,3,4) looking for a straight not the ace.
Play suited A (rag) looking for a flush not the ace. Play pot odds. Lay down anything that will significantly risk your tournament position or your bankroll.
Of course, that is basically playing tight.
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ramsey:

Zachary Tyler (Email Removed) writes
[nq:1]"trivial" had quotations for a reason (indicates sarcasm). I was wondering if anyone has any tips on how to avoid ... method of picking up on the fact that you've gotten beat by a kicker, before the cards get turned. Thanks.[/nq]
Bad beats are one thing. They are generally good. If you get your opponent to the river chasing you without the proper odds to do so you are playing the game right. If they chase you in these circumstances then a percentage of the time they will beat you; and you want them to - it encourages them to keep on chasing you in the future.

The only thing to watch is that you are keeping the pressure on. If they shouldn't have called on the flop, but did and then you gave them a free card on the turn you too have made a mistake. Keep an eye out for those players who will chase with under pairs etc. and make them pay all the way (including the river normally).If you have 'kicker' problem then you are getting involved in pots with the worst of it and this is very bad. It can't altogether be avoided. But keep an eye on who beats you and what there action was before the flop. Some players do not raise with AK, AQ, AJ. These players tend to be generally passive - so if they come out betting on the flop then generally give them credit for a good kicker and strongly consider folding. Others will raise with these hands - but are generally tight.

When they bet on the flop you will normally be right to give them credit for a decent kicker and bail out - but sometimes you will fold the only Ace if they bet their under pair. The wilder players will raise with a wide variety of hands and these in general you may need to pay off. They could have anything. One tactic is to raise them immediately on the flop; it might help to get other hands out and slow them down.

One thing to think about is this. If you have any top pair and a weak kicker you are likely to win a small pot, if your hand is good, or lose several bets if it isn't. So often it pays to check and fold such hands on the flop. Another thing to consider is the quality of the board. If you hit your second pair is it likely to make your hand good - or might it also make an opponent a straight/flush. You can call more often if you feel it will be safe to raise if you hit your second pair.

This is intended purely as general advice. The right action will depend on a huge range of factors which can only be assessed on a case by case basis.

ramsey

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JohnnyD:

My approach to avoiding bad beats is simple. If you generally play the worst hands or drawing hands, then you are the one giving bad beats and you rarely get one put on you.

JohnnyD
www.JohnnyDPoker.com

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jarrett40:

[nq:1]Anyone have any advice on how to handle bad beats (mostly losing a very strong hand to a hand with ... I often lose the extremely tough decisions in my largest pots. Any sound advice would be of extreme value, thanks.[/nq]
3 points come quickly to mind.

You obviously have not been playing long enough to know what a bad beat really is.Just because you lose a hand does not mean it was a bad beat.A bad beat is when you have the nuts (or close to it) and someone hits a one or two outer to beat you.
A hand that depends on a kicker is not what most solid players would call a "strong" hand.
If you are depending on a kicker we have a term we use in the games I play in that we use only half-jokingly when referring to a kicker.. "There is only ONE."
jarrett40

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Calahan MacCool:

[nq:1]Anyone have any advice on how to handle bad beats (mostly losing a very strong hand to a hand with ... I often lose the extremely tough decisions in my largest pots. Any sound advice would be of extreme value, thanks.[/nq]
What hands are you talking about? AQ against AK or A9s against J9s? I suppose you are talking about NL hold'em.You have to know something about your opponant and the type of game you are in. You should always have foremost in your mind Position, Player, Pot size and Stack size. There are myriad of examples I can give, your opponant controlling the pot, you controlling the pot, out of position, in position, against another player with a draw all of these things are going to dictate how to play (or not to). I see alot of players play all or nothing, they are either folding or betting the max.

These players are easy to beat. Are you an all or nothing player? About the only advice I can give, is learn to bet something less then the max (when appropriate). An example is you have J9s from late position witha bunch of limpers. Flop is 994 and pot size is $90, everybody checks to you. Bet something less then $90, like $45. My reasoning is: I feel I have more of a chance to win if I call a check raise after betting $45 then $125 and I if I chose to, I can easily let my $45 go and move on to the next hand.

Yet if the $125 bet got check raised, it's more likely that I'm beat (and I have a harder time folding because of the chips committed).

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Gergery1999:

Specifically related to how you handle the emotional aspect of losing when you think you should have won:
1. Understand the math behind it. When your KK all-in is cracked by somegoofball playing A5 offsuit you are only a 70% favorite. So you should EXPECT to lose that hand alittle less than 1 in 3. When it happens on any given hand it of course sucks, but if you've won the last two times you had KK vs Ax, you SHOULD lose the third one. So adjust your mindset.
2. Understand what being a good player is. As some WSOP champ, said,"you've got to understand that if you are a good player, you are going to have more bad beats put on you than you'll put on others, simply because you'll be in there with a better hand".
3. Walk away and do something else. When you start feeling annoyed, orlike you want to "get even" with one of the other players, stop playing and don't come back til you calm down.
and most importantly,
4. Tighten up. If you play fewer starting hands, you will be getting intheir with higher % chance of success, and will by definition get drawn out on less. If you only play 99 and higher under the gun, you won't have that A8 beat your 55's because you'll have folded it when you're not a bigger favorite than 53%.
[nq:1]Anyone have any advice on how to handle bad beats (mostly losing a very strong hand to a hand with ... I often lose the extremely tough decisions in my largest pots. Any sound advice would be of extreme value, thanks.[/nq]
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