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RE: How Hollywood Park Got It's Top Section Action Back page 3This is a discussion thread · 42 replies Irish Mike: "In other words, no one knows how many potential customers/players are driven away by the worst behaved players that are all too prevalent in Los Angeles card clubs."This is one of my main gripes and it is not limited to LA card clubs. I play in a local club where there are four of the most obnoxious, angle-shooting foul-mouthed jerks that ever polluted a poker table. However, they will sit there and play around the clock because they have absolutely no life beyond a poker game. As a result, management tolerates any kind of crap these guys pull. Unfortunately, management never considers that fact that these guys have run off more than a dozen good quality action players - and these good action players tell their friends not to play in the club. It is a stupid, short-sighted management blunder - and it happens repeatedly in poker rooms all over the country. Irish Mike "I stood on the Dublin docks and my future was uncertain, in a place where fortunes are won and lost on the dealing of a hand"
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Sam Davis: [nq:2]Andy, you picked 3 of the worst The good thing is there all losers!! That's why the rounders and casino put up with them. Sam[/nq][nq:1]IMO the casinos and card clubs should look at the big picture and recognize that what the rounders are willing ... are driven away by the worst behaved players that are all too prevalent in Los Angeles card clubs. Regards, Rick[/nq] Great post Rick, you stated it beautifully!! They drive away the good customers, and the clubs have put up with it for years.
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Rick Nebiolo: [nq:2]"In other words, no one knows how many potential customers/players ... that are all too prevalent in Los Angeles card clubs."[/nq][nq:1]This is one of my main gripes and it is not limited to LA card clubs. I play in a ... club. It is a stupid, short-sighted management blunder - and it happens repeatedly in poker rooms all over the country.[/nq] Management in most industries is under pressure to show short-term gains. But in competitive industries, a company that has a superior long run strategy will eventually dominate. Poker rooms are not truly competitive in that they are usually either a large part of an uncompetitive market (e.g., Los Angeles, where poker now dominates the casinos but no new card club can open) or an insignificant part of a competitive market (e.g., Las Vegas, where poker rooms are usually off the radar of upper management in an otherwise competitive casino environment). Get rid of the bad apples and you lose a game today. The games you gain in the future might only be of benefit to the manager that succeeds you. Regards, Rick
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Diane from Green Bay: [nq:1]In other words, no one knows how many potential customers/players are driven away by the worst behaved players that are all too prevalent in Los Angeles card clubs. Regards, Rick[/nq]Rick (and Barbara) What about the jerk who plays in the $10-20 game at the Bike? The older (Eastern European?) man (name might be EJ? EC?, I forget) who is so obnoxious, muttering, mean, slowing down the game, throwing cards, buys in for minimum, does short buys, and then turns around and does a $2,500 buyin etc? Barbara know who I am talking about, since I leave the game whenever he shows up. I first went to the Bike last year due to Barbara's invitation and have thoroughly enjoyed all my subsequent visits there except for when that guy shows up in the game. He is so unpleasant that will leave $10-20 or $20-40 and go play $3-6 to avoid him - or worse (for the Bike) I just leave all together. What can be done about him? I am coming back to LA again next month and look forward to playing at the Bike in addition to playing at Commerce. It's too bad that one player has that impact, but truly if he is playing in the game, I will pass.. Diane
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Bjgkaraoke: Diane, his initials are EB. I agree is a pain in the ass, but he plays almost every day and, unbelievably, some people actually like him. He responds to criticism, though, and cools it when told to pipe down.He loves attention, and Betty B. gives it to him. I used to let him bug me, but now I basically ignore him. When he gets out of line and angers a player, I call the floorman and they correct the problem. Diane, he's basically a lonely old man who likes the attention he gets at the Bike. Also, he's a regular customer who goes through a lot of money. It's too bad he's keeping you from playing in our game, but, even though he's irritating to some people, he's not going anywhere. Barbara Gallamore
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Rick Nebiolo: [nq:2]In other words, no one knows how many potential customers/players ... all too prevalent in Los Angeles card clubs. Regards, Rick[/nq][nq:1]Rick (and Barbara) What about the jerk who plays in the $10-20 game at the Bike? The older (Eastern European?) ... a $2,500 buyin etc? Barbara know who I am talking about, since I leave the game whenever he shows up.[/nq] Of course I know of whom you are speaking (and Barbara probably does too). My personal opinion is that he is an odd sort of jerk and very bad for the game, and he drives far more "customer hours" away than he gives back in "hours played". All though he is about the only bad apple that plays the game, he is one bad apple too many IMO. The idea stated elsewhere in this thread that certain customers just aren't worth it isn't exactly universal accepted by management. Even if it were, in fairness to all players, a system needs to be implemented where low level but continuous "jerky" or obnoxious behavior is tracked and documented before barring any particular player. A lot of issues would have to be addressed to ensure accuracy and fairness. But such a system is doomed unless management from top to bottom supports it. [nq:1]Barbara know who I am talking about, since I leave the game whenever he shows up.[/nq] It is interesting that this same guy was a regular "supporting" our fledgling 15/30 stud game. Could there be any relationship between this guy's "support" and the games failure to take hold? [nq:1]I first went to the Bike last year due to Barbara's invitation and have thoroughly enjoyed all my subsequent visits ... too bad that one player has that impact, but truly if he is playing in the game, I will pass..[/nq] Customers such as yourself driven away by obnoxious jerks are usually driven away silently (which is why your public post is important). The extensive "play" of the jerk is noticed. It takes visionary and secure management to see that when the everyday jerk is barred (assuming his behavior is uncorrectable), you lose business today but gain business in the long run. Regards, Rick
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Rick Nebiolo: [nq:1]Diane, his initials are EB. I agree is a pain in the ass, but he plays almost every day and, unbelievably, some people actually like him. He responds to criticism, though, and cools it when told to pipe down.[/nq]There is little doubt that if you fairly evaluate every obnoxious jerk, you will find people who actually like the jerk in question. After all, even Ted Bundy received marriage proposals in jail. This guy is no Ted Bundy, and he isn't in the class of the three "customers" mentioned by Andy Fox above, but he is still a jerk even if he occasionally curbs his jerky behavior. [nq:1]He loves attention, and Betty B. gives it to him. I used to let him bug me, but now I basically ignore him. When he gets out of line and angers a player, I call the floorman and they correct the problem.[/nq] But he continues to often get out of line. You and Betty are a captive audience. I've had several players tell me they avoid your game when this guy is in it. The damage he causes far exceeds the play he gives the casino. Of course this is my gut feeling and difficult to quantify. [nq:1]Diane, he's basically a lonely old man who likes the attention he gets at the Bike.[/nq] I'm no psychiatrist but you are probably right. [nq:1]Also, he's a regular customer who goes through a lot of money.[/nq] This is a central issue. Players making their living or part of their living off a game are far more likely to tolerate or rationalize obnoxious behavior of weak players, especially as the limits rise. But the vast majority of potential customers play for entertainment or for competition and usually prefer a reasonably civilized playing environment. Few of these part time customers expect a card club atmosphere to mimic a Sunday church breakfast, but many don't want to repeatedly face the same rude jerks every day they play. They (generally) don't face the same jerks when they golf, they don't when they bowl, they don't when they go fishing, they don't when they stay home and read a book. Yet they do face the same jerks when they play certain limits at card clubs. I don't mean to pick on you or your game. If anything, your game is well known for having about the nicest group of core players in town. But this guy is a noted exception. [nq:1]It's too bad he's keeping you from playing in our game, but, even though he's irritating to some people, he's not going anywhere.[/nq] And this is unfortunate IMO. Poker needs more Diane's and fewer EB's (although Mason Malmuth may disagree  )~ Rick
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Andy Fox: "He is so unpleasant that will leave $10-20 or $20-40 and go play $3-6 to avoid him - or worse (for the Bike) I just leave all together."The advantage of Commerce is that, at 20-40 and 40-80, there is usually a choice of games. And one can move up (or down) to 30-60 (or 15-30). It is hard to avoid all the jerks. Gambling and jerks go together like a horse and carriage. While I too like the ambiance, food and layout of the Bike compared to Commerce, there is simply more action to choose from at Commerce. I'll generally look to get in a game where I know 2 or 3 of the players are amiable, polite and sociable. So I know I am in for a pleasant experience where I can either chat with those people, or at least know they're going to treat everyone else with respect. But Rick's point is a good one. While the presence of these types is tolerated, either because they are losing players or for any other reason, management will pay dearly for losing a table if they kick out the most egregious offenders. Each table is worth roughly $1,000,000/year in collections. But we'll never know how many more tables there could be if a more enjoyable general environment was encouraged through a zero-tolerance policy.
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P38JR7: [nq:1]What can be done about him? I am coming back to LA again next month and look forward to playing ... bad that one player has that impact, but truly if he is playing in the game, I will pass.. Diane[/nq]Yes. Bike 10-20. Great game. Six props and one slow-rolling ***.
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Bjgkaraoke: Not true, P38JR7, from anon.net. I take it you don't play there now. That's one *** less.Barbara Gallamore
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