Lederer bad beats Jett on Travel Channel

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Beuksux:

i'm watching Party Poker Million II on Travel channel, it's heads up and Howard Lederer yanks a K on the river to steal the hand away from Chip Jett.
Jett gets all bent out of shape, pounds his fist on the table, and fights his emotions to keep his composure.
what's he getting all *** off about? this happens to me at least 3 times an hour on Party Poker.
but online poker isn't rigged. yeah right.
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Wolf:

[nq:1]i'm watching Party Poker Million II on Travel channel, it's heads up and Howard Lederer yanks a K on the ... this happens to me at least 3 times an hour on Party Poker. but online poker isn't rigged. yeah right.[/nq]
I'm confused. You give a real world example of this happening, but if it happens online it's a sign of rigging???
I'm convinced that many of these online 'bad beats' we're hearing about really aren't. I'm on a table on Party, first hand so I'm a big blind, but not 'the' big blind. I am dealt junk, but I'm already in. Flop comes, I have junk, table checks. Same on the turn. The river gives me a straight, so I raise and win the pot. Other better says 'Now thats a bad beat'. No, losing when you give someone two free cards is NOT a bad beat. Bad players manufacture bad beats. I'm not saying thats necessarily the case with you, but in how many of these stories is it the case?

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George E. Ays:

a) How does a beat that you've seen in actual (not virtual) play equate to rigging online poker? If anything you should see that if it can happen in real life, it can happen in virtual life.
b) If you're gonna mention a bad beat Chip Jett took...why not mention this hand:
Chip AJo
Howard A4o
Board JTx44
Chip was a 324 to 1 favorite after the flop.
I do enjoy hidden agendas though.
[nq:1]i'm watching Party Poker Million II on Travel channel, it's heads up and Howard Lederer yanks a K on the ... this happens to me at least 3 times an hour on Party Poker. but online poker isn't rigged. yeah right.[/nq]
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JNRI:

Wolf,
Excellent post & point. At foxwoods the other night I had pocket QQ, I raise get re-raised and I cap it. Flop is rags I bet out the raiser bumps it again I just call (had to think set or AA or KK), turns a rag, I check he bets, I raise HIM to see where I am and he caps it. Pot committed I shake my head call the river which is a King.
He flips over K-J suited and starts telling the table how good he is.

If this happened online to some people they would call for an investigation. This stuff happens in poker all the time.
JNRI

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Beuksux:

it's a little something called tongue in cheek humor.

i just found it funny watching a seasoned pro get steamed over a beat on the river, cuz like i said, i see bad beats on Party Poker at least three or four times an hour by guys playing 2/3 on the button and pulling 3-3 on the turn and river. but you're right, it must be my imagination, cuz *** like that happens all the time, right?
personally i think the arcade classic NBA Jam was more realistic, but again, that's just my hidden agenda (whatever that means) rearing it's ugly head, i suppose.
but if bad beats were so commonplace (as you've surmised) in the real world, shouldn't a pro be used to them by now, instead of reacting like somebody ripped his heart out and fed it to him.
[nq:2]i'm watching Party Poker Million II on Travel channel, it's ... on Party Poker. but online poker isn't rigged. yeah right.[/nq]
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Beuksux:

i never said they don't happen, they just don't happen as frequently with real cards as they do online. that's why when it happens with real cards, it prompts such an emotional response, even from a seasoned pro.
[nq:2]i'm watching Party Poker Million II on Travel channel, it's ... on Party Poker. but online poker isn't rigged. yeah right.[/nq]
[nq:1]I'm confused. You give a real world example of this happening, but if it happens online it's a sign of ... I'm not saying thats necessarily the case with you, but in how many of these stories is it the case?[/nq]
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Mark D. Money:

I play for hours every day and I experience a true bad beat may once or twice a week. I think some people dont realize the differnce between a bad beat and a BAD CALL or bad decision.
True bad beats are part of the game, and how you deal with them will determine how good of a player you will be. If you find yourself lamenting over and over again on message boards about bad beat this and bad beat that, you may want to check yourself and maybe think about buying a poker book and working on your game.
And I also find that this talk of online poker being rigged is usually done by people who are not very good players. You can blame the game all you want, but i can attest as well as many many others that we play online and come out ahead. And if it was rigged, then no one would come out ahead.

MDM
[nq:2]i'm watching Party Poker Million II on Travel channel, it's ... on Party Poker. but online poker isn't rigged. yeah right.[/nq]
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Beuksux:

Dude, you're talking about ONE HAND, give me a *** break. of course these kind of beats happen, OCCASIONALLY. but why don't you talk about the other 100 hands where it didn't happen and the guy who flopped the best hand won the pot?
online the *** happens like clockwork. i'm not saying it's not entertaining and all, it's just not realistic.
[nq:1]fights[/nq]
[nq:2]I'm confused. You give a real world example of this ... in how many of these stories is it the case?[/nq]
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Beuksux:

i'm not saying you can't win. i'm just saying it's fixed to maximize profitability. i play poker for fun. i'm self-employed and run a business, i don't need poker winnings to suppliment my income, and as such i think like a businessman.
you guys think people are in business to put out a quality product, and make an honest living, and that's where your mindset if flawed. any person with a shred of business savvy sits around at board meetings figuring out ways to trim costs, cut payroll, and maximize profits; and such choices are often made at the expense of other people. sorry, those are the cold facts of life in a capitalistic society.
now if i'm running a poker site, and am making a fixed rake on a table tourney (eg: $1 rake on a $10 sit-n-go). i'm making $10 profit per event, and whether that tourney lasts one hour, or two hours, i'm making the same amount of money. right or wrong?
but if could figure out a way to increase the action per hand by fixing the cards, and cut my tourney time down from say, an average of 1 hour, to
45 minutes per, i'd increase my profitablility by 25%.

so my question is, if the goal of my poker site is to make money, what's my incentive to put out an honest product at the expense of profits? because it's the right thing to do?
don't be so naive.
this isn't about bad beats, or pot odds, it's a matter of human nature and sorry folks, greed is inherent in the species.

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mikeb:

It seems logical that you would see a lot more bad beats online than in a B&M room, and a lot more in the average B&M ring game than in a tournament game with top professionals. The variance in a LL online game must be huge. I'd like to see some statistics on average bad beats per hour, if such a thing were possible.
A bad beat is almost by definition a very improbable draw by someone who should not have been in the hand to begin with. (Actually, an improbable draw out is called a beat. A bad beat is when it happens to you.) That's a lot more likely to happen online, particularly in no-fold'em low limit games. Plus, online you see a lot more hands per hour than at a B&M, so you see a lot more bad beats per hour.
The exception to this, which you saw in that TV game, is in head to head play at the end of the tournament. Those two guys were playing a lot looser once everyone else was out. And don't forget that it was a limit game, which made it a lot easier to see some more cards at the end, especially with the big stack. Howard was playing Jett like a violin. Jett was on semi-tilt after blowing the lead, and the proper way to play when your opponent loosens up is for you to loosen up.
If some math nerd would do a statistical study of online games, I'd bet that we would see that all of the "cheating" cited on this forum is well within expected variances.
[nq:1]i'm watching Party Poker Million II on Travel channel, it's heads up and Howard Lederer yanks a K on the ... this happens to me at least 3 times an hour on Party Poker. but online poker isn't rigged. yeah right.[/nq]
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Lederer bad beats Jett on Travel Channel

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