NLHE questions - how tight is tight?

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Sexxi Dee:

i made a post the other day in regard to tight play. a couple of guys i used to play with (my ex's friends) told me you have to loosen up your game a bit in NL tourneys, as opposed to limit ring games where you can sit back and wait for premium hands.
one reply i got said my advice was wrong, and to tighten up my game in a tourney. hmmm..
all i know is from my experience, the guys that played a lot of hands and put out big bets were the consistent winners. the tight asses that were afraid to make plays and put out big raises unless they had guaranteed winners got their asses handed to them on those days they didn't get great cards. the looser aggressive players won more consistently. one guy in particular barely folded down a hand (maybe 1 out of every 5 or 6) and he was the best player. everybody hated playing him cuz he'd bully everyone. especially the tight players.
to my knowledge, this guy plays:
A - anything
any two suited cards
any two connected cards (probably down to about 4/5) any one gappers suited or not (probably down to 5/7) he might even play K - anything and even Q - anything (i'm not sure)

he plays so many hands, he might just as well play any picture card regardless of the kicker, but..
how loose is too loose? how tight is too tight?
to be more specific, where can i get a list of playable starting hands for NLHE that i can use as a guide? any charts i've seen for playable starting hands have been for Limit - non tourney games, which does me no good.

thanks,
Denise
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TimmyOne:

The answer is they're both right.
You should either tighten up your style or loosen it up in NL vs. Limit ...

It's the semi-tight players who get eaten alive in NL.
[nq:1]i made a post the other day in regard to tight play. a couple of guys i used to play ... seen for playable starting hands have been for Limit - non tourney games, which does me no good. thanks, Denise[/nq]
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DocHolliday:

As I desperately try to restrain myself from some juvenille response about being tight or loose..
In my expericnce, tournaments are great experience because you have to constantly alter your playing style.
Everyone plays loose before the break because of re-buys and then tightens up after the break because no one wants to make a quick exit. If someone bets into you hard right after the break, you can almost guarantee they have something solid.
I play loose early, tighen-up some but then you have to slowly loosen up or the progressive increases in the blinds will eat your stack up.

If you have a shot at a good hand before the first break, take it. YOu may get lucky and end up with a double or triple up.

Good Luck!
[nq:1]i made a post the other day in regard to tight play. a couple of guys i used to play ... seen for playable starting hands have been for Limit - non tourney games, which does me no good. thanks, Denise[/nq]
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TimmyOne:

and since "everyone" is playing loose before the break and tight after it ..
the conventional wisdom says to do the exact opposite and play tight before the break and loose after it ...
[nq:2]i made a post the other day in regard to ... non tourney games, which does me no good. thanks, Denise[/nq]
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Sexxi Dee:

hey Doc,
thanks for hanging on to your self control. i know it's especially hard for you guys when the ladies get involoved.
first off, i've never played with rebuys. it was always home games, and the tournaments were 'freezeouts' (i think that's what they're called?)

but what about a list of starting standards to use as a guide, (assuming it's after the break or a freezeout and it's a full table - lets say 8-10 players)?
any help here?
[nq:2]i made a post the other day in regard to ... non tourney games, which does me no good. thanks, Denise[/nq]
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roy_miami:

I would guess that the loose players win often, but its not the same guy winning every time. If you play loose you will be more suseptable to luck of the cards, bad cards you'll be knocked out early, with good cards (like making gutshots and trips to take down AA 7 or 8 times) you'll have a good chance to win it all. The tighter players you probably see them consistantly making it to the top 20%, but not winning it all as much.

I prefer to play tight till I get into the money, then I'll loosen it up quite a bit.
[nq:1]i made a post the other day in regard to tight play. a couple of guys i used to play ... seen for playable starting hands have been for Limit - non tourney games, which does me no good. thanks, Denise[/nq]
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DocHolliday:

Denise,
It has nothing to do with women, there are just times when I seem to be an 8th grader trapped in a 30-something man's body. LOL

One interesting read, can't remember where I saw it, was to try and see as many flops as you can as cheaply as you can in tournaments, especially early. Because the blinds go steadily up, and at a fairly rapid rate, you have to loosen up some so stay in the hunt.
You MUST be very cognizant of your stack size in a tournament and don't want to fall too far below average.
Common poker theory suggests that even if you can just steal the blinds once in awhile, you can lay low until you get a playable hand. However, that is based on the blinds remaining the same size. In a tournament you have to make plays frequently to stay alive. I made the opposite mistake in a tourney last week where I got a horrible run of cards and didn't make a playable hand for what seemed like forever. However, because I waited, the blinds ate me up and by the time I had a decent hand, my stack was too small and everyone called me. I should have been more aggressive earlier and not let my stack get so low.

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Rich:

[nq:1]all i know is from my experience, the guys that played a lot of hands and put out big bets were the consistent winners.[/nq]
I think that if you look at tournament results you'll see that there are people who do well who play different styles. I don't think you should try to adopt a certain style that fits some precomceived notion of what you think can win, but rather find a style that is natural for you and fits with who you are. You obviousloy need to be able to adjust some to the conditions, and it's important to be able to shift gears. But I do not believe that simply playing loosely will make someone a winner.
Rich
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Beuksux:

thanks doc,
what's wild is that i had the same thing happen to me. im my home games i found myself getting into 'rut' as i called it, playing way too tight and it cost me. i was less experienced as a card player than the guys i played with (and usually the only woman at the table), and some of them thought they could push me around. so i'd play really tight, hoping that they'd know i had good cards when i played and give me some respect.

well, one game in particular, i got a cold-assed run of cards for about 3 hours. i got maybe 4 playable hands (the best of which was pocket 10s). i must have gotten 8/3 10x over that period, and barely got a a kicker over a 5.
but over that period i tossed out a few like: 8/9o J/9s and A/2o. and my gut was telling me, '***, play them!' but i didnt, cuz my stack was shrinking.
the problem i have with really tight play is the fact you're gonna miss the flop a lot, regardless, and when you're playing really tight, you're never in a hand. so my stack got smaller and smaller and eventually i got a few good hands but everybody called me down and i got blinded out.

so lately i've loosened up and have been trying my hand at the free money SNGs at Party Poker. i play more hands, see more flops, and know enough not to get into a huge betting war with the 'all-in assholes' as i like to call them. usually when it gets down to about 4 or 5 players that are more serious about winning, i loosen up, and i'm finding it to be a bit monotonous now, cuz i almost always finish in the top 2.

now i just have to get up the nerve to play for cash. hmmm..
[nq:1]great for starting[/nq]
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Jgm :

[nq:1]how loose is too loose? how tight is too tight? to be more specific, where can i get a list ... charts i've seen for playable starting hands have been for Limit - non tourney games, which does me no good.[/nq]
There is no answer to either question. It depends on the dynamics.

If you want starting hand advice, pay $100 for lessons off Bob Ciaffone. You will get 1 of his 2 bigbet books thrown in for free along with other written material.
Pokerschoolonline also has some starting out lessons off Ciaffone. Including explaining how starting values change between limit and no limit. You can sign up for a months membership for about $15.

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NLHE questions - how tight is tight?

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