Raising from the BB

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Aaron:

Another thread brought up this question for me.
Let's say you are in the BB with a small pair (44, 55, 66, whatever). Seven people limp into the pot in front of you. Would you raise or check, and why?
My argument for raising here is that you have no voluntarily contributed money in the pot. Therefore, if you raise, and all 7 limpers call, you are getting 15 to 1 on your bet, which is by far enough to hit a set 1 in
8.5 times. Even if you raise and the worst thing happens (UTG reraisesand everyone else folds) you are still getting 5 to 1 which, with implied odds, seems sufficient, too.
Am I missing something here? It seems like the better play is to raise, rather than check, since you guarantee yourself a huge pot if you make your set, but only risk 1 (and sometimes 2) bet(s).

* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com

This thread originates from within 'usenet', and as such the content and users are not guaranteed to have been moderated by our community.

CincinnatiKid:

[nq:1]Another thread brought up this question for me. Let's say you are in the BB with a small pair (44, ... since you guarantee yourself a huge pot if you make your set, but only risk 1 (and sometimes 2) bet(s).[/nq]
I assume you are talking about limit? Why raise? 44,55,66 are absolutely garbage without a set. Wait to hit your set and get the suckers to stay in the pot when the big bets are put into the pot on the turn and the river.

RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com

This thread originates from within 'usenet', and as such the content and users are not guaranteed to have been moderated by our community.

Aaron:

This thread originates from within 'usenet', and as such the content and users are not guaranteed to have been moderated by our community.

Aaron:

[nq:2]Another thread brought up this question for me. Let's say ... your set, but only risk 1 (and sometimes 2) bet(s).[/nq]
[nq:1]I assume you are talking about limit? Why raise? 44,55,66 are absolutely garbage without a set. Wait to hit your set and get the suckers to stay in the pot when the big bets are put into the pot on the turn and the river.[/nq]
Let me elaborate on my reply. According to Sklansky (and all others, but I pick on him) the five reasons to raise are to:

1. Add money to the pot
2. Drive people out of the pot
3. Isolate a player
4. Gain information
5. Bluff.

Reason number 1 is what I am working with here. Why wouldn't you want to add money to the pot in a positive EV situation? Yes, your hand is garbage without the set, but the reason you call to flop a set is because you feel that you are getting sufficient pot odds/implied odds to make it, otherwise you toss it. Why, then (as an extention on this train of thought) wouldn't you raise if the pot odds warrant it? It's the same concept, but it seems like checking is leaving money on the table here.

Can you demonstrate for me mathematically how checking is the preferred option?

looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com

This thread originates from within 'usenet', and as such the content and users are not guaranteed to have been moderated by our community.

CincinnatiKid:

[nq:2]I assume you are talking about limit? Why raise? 44,55,66 ... put into the pot on the turn and the river.[/nq]
[nq:1]But the math, what about the math...[/nq]
Go over to 2+2, Sklansky Jr.
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com

This thread originates from within 'usenet', and as such the content and users are not guaranteed to have been moderated by our community.

Aaron:

[nq:1]check,[/nq]
[nq:2]But the math, what about the math...[/nq]
[nq:1]Go over to 2+2, Sklansky Jr.[/nq]
Can't we all just get along? Seriously, is this a 'math averse' forum, or does everyone here just hate discussing poker strategy in depth? I thought this was a 'poker strategy forum', much like 2+2. Just trying to spur some discussion..lol

looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com

This thread originates from within 'usenet', and as such the content and users are not guaranteed to have been moderated by our community.

CincinnatiKid:

[nq:2]I assume you are talking about limit? Why raise? 44,55,66 ... put into the pot on the turn and the river.[/nq]
[nq:1]Let me elaborate on my reply. According to Sklansky (and all others, but I pick on him) the five reasons ... checking is leaving money on the table here. Can you demonstrate for me mathematically how checking is the preferred option?[/nq]
You're thinking too much now, AAron. Whatever happened to common sense? If
7 people limped in that most likely 7 people are gonna call your raise.There are basically only 2 cards left in the deck to make your hand..Why not check it and let the A4o and the K9o stay in the hand instead of giving them an excuse to fold? When the Flop comes down AK5 you're golden.

* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com

This thread originates from within 'usenet', and as such the content and users are not guaranteed to have been moderated by our community.

Bankroll Builders:

Sklansky recommends raising with 99 and higher from the blinds. If you raise with your baby pairs from the blinds you are building a pot and giving players with odds to outdraw you. Remember your baby pairs that grow up to be sets are vulnerable and by raising preflop andbody thet flops a straight or flus draw is going to see the turn. Wanna build a bankroll fast?
Check out http://buildmybankroll.blogspot.com
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com

This thread originates from within 'usenet', and as such the content and users are not guaranteed to have been moderated by our community.

CincinnatiKid:

Math is great and all..A large part of the game is based on odds. Too often with "think" too much and forget about common sense. What limit are we talkin? 2-4? People at that level will play middle pair to the river and such..Don't give them an excuse to fold preflop. Let them stay in the hand and make your money on teh turn and river.

* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com

This thread originates from within 'usenet', and as such the content and users are not guaranteed to have been moderated by our community.

GrouchySmurf1002:

[nq:2]I assume you are talking about limit? Why raise? 44,55,66 ... put into the pot on the turn and the river.[/nq]
[nq:1]Let me elaborate on my reply. According to Sklansky (and all others, but I pick on him) the five reasons ... checking is leaving money on the table here. Can you demonstrate for me mathematically how checking is the preferred option?[/nq]
The dilemma comes in your chances of being re-raised. You don't want to raise out of position, only to face a re-raise and have your implied odds shot to ***.
At a passive table (especially one passive enough where you have an outside shot at seeing the turn for free), it has some value. At an aggressive table, I'd take the free shot at winning a big pot.

the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com

This thread originates from within 'usenet', and as such the content and users are not guaranteed to have been moderated by our community.

Raising from the BB

Related forum topics: