To Cheat or not to Cheat, that is the question. GCA

Newgca:

To "CHEAT or not to CHEAT" That is the question.
When I entered poker in the middle 60's, poker was far different than today. Legalized poker was only allowed on the west coast. Two states,(California and Nevada) had legal poker rooms. The other two states were Washington and Oregon which had tolerance policies for card rooms.
The games in Washington were in a tavern or a pool room. These were allowed to be open under certain stipulations under some kind of tolerance policy. These were small places with several having as many as 5 games going. Oregon was basically the same. However the games were further off the beaten path.

Anyone who played professional cards in those days had only one ambition, get to California or Nevada. These were the major leagues. However, before one can even begin to think of the major leagues, one must graduate from the minor leagues.
The west coast had a poker circuit. There were games up and down the coast. British Columbia was the north and Oregon was the south. The other major circuit was the southern circuit, or the Texas circuit. Before you could even think of going to Vegas or Gardena(the poker capitol of the world at this time), you must make your mark in the circuits you played in. If you couldn't beat the minor leagues, how were you to win in the major leagues.

I played in the west coast circuit. Games stretched the coast. From British Columbia down to southern Oregon there were steady private games. At this time most of the operators of these games tried keeping the games honest. However all games wanted new players. This was how cheaters were allowed in. And there was an endless supply of them.
The southern circuit also had its games. They stretched across Texas into other southern states. However the reputation that this circuit had was a very bad one. I played in the west.
By the age of 21 in 1968 I had already slaughtered the western circuit. I had done this honestly. I had also caught many cheats in the process. I have told you I learned to protect myself from cheating, playing with the Afro Americans while I was young. I learned all the moves from them. They cheated me from the beginning, but accepted me as I was able to catch them later. I paid for my education in the early middle sixties while under age. Since most of these Afro Americans were from the south, they gave me this advice, don't play in the south. I listened.
In 1968 I went to Gardena. This was then the Poker Capitol of the World. They only played "draw poker" lo-ball and hi-ball. Six card rooms with 35 tables each. Each card room was full all day. Back in those days I think they closed down for 4 hours a day. From 5am to 9am. People would wait an hour for the bars to open at 6am and go back to playing at 9am. I arrived in Gardena in 1968 after all the card rooms in Washington were closed down. A republican governor had taken control and shut down the tolerance policies and card rooms.

When I arrived for good (I have been there before), I brought a bankroll of around $20,000. Never being a great manager of money, I did many things wrong from the start. I immediately started playing in the biggest games in Gardena at this time. These were $15-$20 or $20 straight limit. Probably the equivalent to $200-$400 or $300-$600 at this time. As you could buy a new Eldorado Cadillac for under $5000 at this time. You could also rent a nice apartment for $100 a month. It now takes at least $45,000 for an eldorado and what can you rent for a $1,000 a month.
I also liked the race track and they had them day and night. Gambling almost around the clock. Right away I assumed I could beat the "big games". Well I ran into a new form of cheating that I hadn't encountered before. I could easily catch someone dealing off the bottom or running up the deck. I could catch a guy holding out cards and was fully aware of the cheating apparatus at this time. I was not aware of "saving bets" and "scamming". Within 30 days I was broke. What was I to do. I knew I was the best player, since I had seen the way the "professionals played". They couldn't beat me. I knew I was missing something.
I had only one asset left. My car was sold on the next day. I think I received $320 for it. So this was my bankroll. I devised a plan and I would stick with it. I didn't have any bad habits at this time. I was in excellent body and mind. I rented a room for a month in a nearby motel and would start at the bottom. I started playing $1 and $2 limit. I played sixteen hours a day. My meals cost 50 cents in the casinos. Hamburger and potatoes were 30 cents and a coke was 10 cents tip was 10 cents. My nut was small.

While I was playing I started noticing everything around me. I would see who would come and go. I would see who everyone talked to. I just watched everything and played. A month later my bankroll was up to $3000 or so. I moved up the ladder. $2-$4. A month after this I had more than doubled my bankroll and was ready to step up again. I had to leave the casino I was in, for the best games were at another casino. Here is where I would stay a while.

I moved into the $3-$6 level. This was a great level for the time. The pots were humongous. I annihilated the games. Within 4 months I had made back my $20,000. I played at least 16 hours a day and didn't spend a dime. I now made my biggest move. I moved into $5-$10 razz. This was lowball with the winner of the pot leaving in a kill. This made for a tight player to have a tremendous edge. All you had to do was wait. It was a $10-$20 game.

While playing for the three months I met many young players. I also saw many things. Since I was around night and day I would run into the hi-level players talking all the time. It was always about the same thing. Money. I learned about "saving bets' ( a strategy devised to keep track of money you play against other people) You would not play against these people, so you saved bets with them. This allowed you to steal pots and take other advantages in the game. You cooperated with others in this way to steal money by betting through people and bet raising.
I realized this was always happening in the big games. Everyone was doing it that played everyday. It was one big "cheating fest". I watched as all the floormen would get tipped everyday. I watched as the boardmen would seat others before me, when I knew I was first. I started tipping everyone. Soon these things weren't happening to me. I was getting seated first. I was getting seated ahead of others.
I learned all the players and saw everything. I learned who was doing what. I watched the collusion and learned. I watched cheating dealers. I never said anything. I threw my hands away. I avoided games. My Bank Roll grew. Soon I moved into $10-$20. This was the game just beneath the biggest game. I understood the things these scammers did. I picked them off. I would check a jack and watch as they went bet raise. I would call. They would hit the table. I wouldn't show my hands. I would make them show first. They would then throw them away. I would show my jack. They got the message.
Soon I was left alone and continued to win. It began to look like I never lost. Well, I almost never did. While I was playing another young player was also going up the ladder. He was a very good player also. We were always in the same game. He was starting a career also. Day after day we both played in the same game. Both of us would win. We got to know each other and became friendly. We were both close to the same age and we started going out to nightclubs and the race track together.

Soon we were real friendly and were in situations in the games were we played against each other. Playing against each other after we became friendly was not the same as before. Sometimes he would attempt a steal and I would pick him off. Other times he did the same. It wasn't the same playing against him. Soon we had words.
We were the superior players in the game. We won almost everyday. The only competition was the other. We formed a partnership. Soon we were slaughtering the players. We were just playing the same bankroll. We had signals and everything was fine. There was no pressure on our friendship and we never had a losing day. Soon I would start playing the boys. After my Bank roll reached 6 figures I started playing higher. I played everyone in LA heads-up at this time. We would go to hotels or homes.
No one beat me. Soon I had dispatched of at least a dozen of LA's finest. It was easy. I didn't cheat them. By this time I was going to Vegas. I had grown up in Seattle, where the games were dealers choice. In the card rooms the games were limit. In private games they were pot limit. I played all games. I was already a major force in Gardena and I wanted to conquer Vegas.

Vegas was another animal. Here the games all had dealers. I was young but everyone I saw looked like someone from a George Raft picture. I played. Soon I saw things that amazed me. It was the same story over here. Here instead of the players dealing off the bottom, the dealers did. Same O same O. I kept winning however. I was young and had the advantage of knowing. They had the disadvantage of not.
In those days many of the young guys always broke. They would try to borrow all the time. I kept lending. Soon I couldn't loan anymore and did something else. We would step down into a $3-$6 game and we would scam. This way I wouldn't have to always loan out the money. I could also make some. It became so easy we stepped up in class. Before long we were beating the LA cheats at their own game.
I was in the big game in Gardena with my own crew. We however played the same money. The same thing they did in Vegas. A much better system than saving bets. With saving bets one person can win a large amount while another can lose a large amount. This makes for hostility. Playing the same money was like an insurance policy. Everyone did the same. No one was hostile.

As my reputation grew, so did other opportunities. Cheating was the way of poker. Being I was young, most people tried every thing they knew against me. I was set up time after time only to catch these individuals. Whatever was out to cheat with, they tried against me. I was too sharp in those days. They would waste much time and money in elaborate "stings" to use on me, only to have to lose expenses.At this time I was also going to Vegas a lot. I loved playing craps. I always lost. I also became know by many people. I was invited to "cheat the cheats". I was given pertinent information and would bring crews to Nevada. We would get into games four and five deep and scam them. Certain dealers were in with us and several of the well known players(cheats) were our targets. Cross booking was our weapon. Nothing could be done to stop it. Soon the "cheats" realized and it came to an end.

But it was "beat the cheats" for a while. Cross booking is a term when you and another person double or triple your wins and loses and pay the other individuals accordingly. Say I won $1000 and he lost $1000. He would pay me an extra $1000 for my win and an extra $1000 for what he lost. If you double this it would be $2000 and $2000. Very good scam especially when you have four partners just losing all the money they can to you.

In the end of 1968 or the beginning of 1969 I played with "professionally marked cards" for the first time. There was a private game in Pomona Ca. that was crooked. A guy who ran the game had been beaten by a couple of cheats(card mechanics) he had invited into the game. The mechanics had consistently been beating his players for a month or so. I don't remember much else except he had purchased some contact lenses and had some marked cards. He ran the game and I was to get a percentage.Since no one in the game knew me it was an easy thing. I was brought in by someone who was a loser in the game and I was wearing the contacts. They were "ruby reds", that worked especially well on the old Bee paper cards. Looking at the cards for the first time was the most amazing thing I had ever seen. It was like the card was printed on the back. Say 2d. It was the 2 of diamonds and it was as large as the card itself.

No way of missing this. Soon I had destroyed everyone in the game, including the cheats. I would play once more. The same thing happened. I don't know what happened after that. I don't think the game went anymore. At least 6 figures was taken down in those 2 plays. I think I received 25%. I didn't play with these lenses again for many years. Soon a new form of marking was made available to me.
Around 1970 or 71 I had separated from my wife. I was heart broken and had gone back to Seattle to get over it. Here I was sold the formulas to make "white flash" and "blackline". I paid $2,500 for this. This was the stuff that was still unknown at this time. Very few people had this or the knowledge to use it. This would remain an "A" way to mark cards through the 80's. New technology was already in use. New lenses were already being played.

In the 1970's I had played in a game in Thousand Oaks or some place around there. I played in this game honestly. This was an honest game. Peter Lupus of the old TV series Mission Impossible played in this game. It may have been at his house. I remember watching an episode of the show where they had to cheat a casino somewhere. They use a camera on the cards which were marked. They kind of reminded me of the "ruby red" contact lenses. I asked him about the episode. He told me that everything that the show uses in doing those Mission Impossible things is already available. It can be done he told me. I never forgot it.

Russ Georgiev
www.pokermafia.com SOON

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Vince lepore:

[nq:1]To "CHEAT or not to CHEAT" That is the question. Russ Georgiev www.pokermafia.com SOON[/nq]After reading this whole bunch of crap I am left with a question. Why did you become a cheat? Nowhere in this bull dooky you wrote is there anything that remotely defends your choosing to be a low life scumbag cheat. So what is the point of this garbage? You cheated because as a young man you possessed little or no moral character. The same is true of you today. You accuse people of cheating without providing any proof. You do this freely on the internet.

You see nothing wrong with doing this. Now I know why. Somewhere in your youth you had the mistaken belief that you were somebody. That you were a great poker player. But something happened when you played with real poker players. You lost all of of your money. And like all cowards you failed to blame yourself. You decided that when you lost it was because everybody must have been cheating you. "What was I to do?" you ask. How about "be a man"! Not a coward.

You became a cheat! Don't blame Afro Americans for teaching you or others that you claim cheated you. They did nothing to make you become a cheat. It was in you! You were the cheat and now you are even trying to cheat yourself out of the truth by concocting some incomprehensible defense. Are you looking for sympathy or even empathy? Forget it! There were millions of young men your age that made honorable choices in the face of dissapointment. You made your bed, now lie in it.

Face the truth. You cheat because you are a coward, plain and simple.

Where the hell is this poker site of yours? October is almost gone. I'm layin 4 to 1 we never see it.
Vince

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Bud:

It's unbelievable how you continue to carry on a dialogue with someone everyone else has kill-filed. He writes one sentence and you respond with a book. I think you just like to hear the sound of your own voice.
Does the word "loser" ring a bell with you. I am following others advice...Ploink!

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Newgca:

[nq:1]October is almost gone. I'm layin 4 to 1 we never see it. Vince[/nq]
Care to BET or do you just want to wag your tongue some more? Tell you what I'll do, I give you the odds.
I've spent over $50,000 already for this site, with lawyers, 1000 T shirts,
1000 Video Tapes and copyrights. Books are in the process of being printed, Ihave an editor, a webmaster.
www.pokermafia.com SOON, bet on it

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OrangeSFO:

[nq:1]To "CHEAT or not to CHEAT" That is the question. When I entered poker in the middle 60's..[/nq]
Honestly Russ...WHO the *** cares?

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OrangeSFO:

[nq:1]I've spent over $50,000 already for this site[/nq]
What a load of crap...

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Vince lepore:

[nq:1]It's unbelievable how you continue to carry on a dialogue with someone everyone else has kill-filed. He writes one sentence ... the sound of your own voice. Does the word "loser" ring a bell with you. I am following others advice...Ploink![/nq]
Hey Bud good riddence I say. Hey, tell me something. If you Ploinked GCA how did you get to my response? Tough question, easy answer. You are the "loser" in your quotation marks above.
Vince

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Bud:

[nq:1]Hey Bud good riddence I say. Hey, tell me something. If you Ploinked GCA how did you get to my response? Tough question, easy answer. You are the "loser" in your quotation marks above. Vince[/nq]
I hadn't ploinked you as of yet. You quoted GCAs response in your post. Easy question, easier answer. Try thinking before you make a fool of yourself. (Yes, I know that's asking an awful lot.) But thanks for the response. I got busy and forgot to kill-file you. Now you're gone.

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Steve McCroskey:

Nevermind that.. I gotta wonder what issues this guy has that he has to come on here every 3 hours with a "I am the Poker God, please bow and blow me" dissertation?
It was entertaining for a day or two.. Empesis on WAS.

S.

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Jgm:

[nq:1]Nevermind that.. I gotta wonder what issues this guy has that he has to come on here every 3 hours with a "I am the Poker God, please bow and blow me" dissertation? It was entertaining for a day or two.. Empesis on WAS.[/nq]
Erm, I hear killfiles are pretty useful.
A huge number of daily posts to get through on rgp, and people tired of reading russ still manage to read and respond to him.

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To Cheat or not to Cheat, that is the question. GCA

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