Wouldn't you call this a string bet?

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kc:

I went up to Pechanga the other day to check out their new room. For those of you who have been there, the room kicks ass. But they apparently have a peculiar rule:
There was a guy who on at least 3 seperate occassions (none when I was in a hand with him) who grabbed 20 chips, cut 8 for a call and then called "time", then decided to raise. I asked the dealer about this after one of the hands, and the dealer and players insisted that it wasn't a string raise because he had the chips in his hand. My argument is that it's not one motion and is the clear definition of a string raise. Your thoughts?

-kc
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KillerMizzou:

You said that he grabbed 20, cut 8 for a call and then called time.

Did he throw the eight in the pot, or did he just set them in front of him? If I understand Ciaffione correctly, either your physical or verbal action is the rule. If he stated that he was going to raise without physically putting chips in the pot, that should be what he is forced to do.

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Quick:

[nq:1]I went up to Pechanga the other day to check out their new room. For those of you who have ... hand. My argument is that it's not one motion and is the clear definition of a string raise. Your thoughts?[/nq]
Subjective. I assume he reached out to cut the chips where he would place his bet? Did he then pull his hand back? Where I've played you reach out with
chips and you're not done until you pull your hand back. That's one of the measures they used. I would think cutting chips and calling time would be the same as still having your hand out there.
As is often the case you can't apply a hard and fast rule to it and the dealer/floor should rule based on intent/effect. The rule against string betting is basically to stop a player from "tricking" subsequent players into thinking his action is finished, guage their reaction, and then "complete" his action making it something other than was was conveyed. Was this the case? Did
subsequent players have a reason to think he had
completed his action? I think that's the answer.
-Quick

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kc:

[nq:1]Did he throw the eight in the pot, or did he just set them in front of him? If I ... was going to raise without physically putting chips in the pot, that should be what he is forced to do.[/nq]
He cut them where he would normally have placed a bet. His actions were:

Grab 20 chips
Cut 8 (4/8 table)
Call "time"
Say "raise"
Cut 8 more
-kc
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kc:

[nq:1]Subjective. I assume he reached out to cut the chips where he would place his bet? Did he then pull his hand back?[/nq]
His hand stayed right where it was.
[nq:1]Where I've played you reach out with chips and you're not done until you pull your hand back. That's one of the measures they used. I would think cutting chips and calling time would be the same as still having your hand out there.[/nq]
My contention is that it's not a single motion. It's basically the same as pulling your hand back because it affords you an opportunity to gauge your opponent's reactions.
[nq:1]As is often the case you can't apply a hard and fast rule to it and the dealer/floor should rule ... the case? Did subsequent players have a reason to think he had completed his action? I think that's the answer.[/nq]
It's the same as some noobie who raises by going back to his rack to grab the second bet. He's not really trying to gain an advantage, he just doesn't know any better. But the fact that he has an opportunity to gauge reaction and gain an unfair advantage is why it's a string raise. I'd say that's the same here. Maybe it's just me. ;-)
-kc
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Chris in Texas:

[nq:1]My argument is that it's not one motion and is the clear definition of a string raise. Your > thoughts?[/nq]
I'm having trouble visualizing by your description where on the felt his first cut occured. The Indian casino where I've played has a clearly defined "action line", and I'll often cut my chips into stacks of 5 behind the line while contemplating to fold/call/raise. It's just easier for me to make sure I'm putting in the correct amount. I'll ALWAYS verbally declare my action before I do anything close to moving chips across the line, no matter how many cuts I did behind the line. No one has ever given me a problem with that.
The funny thing is last time I was there this kid had a habit of when the action is on someone ahead of him, he'll grab a stack of twenty in his hand while the other person is deciding, hold it just short of the action line, and just stare the other person down but then he'd usually fold to a bet or raise.
I guess he was trying to get a read or maybe convince the other player to check/call but it ended up being a tell that I was able to use against him and steal a couple of small pots.
Chris
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kc:

[nq:1]I'm having trouble visualizing by your description where on the felt his first cut occured. The Indian casino where I've ... no matter how many cuts I did behind the line. No one has ever given me a problem with that.[/nq]
This particular casino doesn't have an action line, but he was putting the chips in his normal location for bets. If he was setting it up in front of him I would have had a problem. I've seen lots of players do that.

-kc
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smellmuth:

[nq:2]My argument is that it's not one motion and is the clear definition of a string raise. Your > thoughts?[/nq]
[nq:1]I'm having trouble visualizing by your description where on the felt his first cut occured. The Indian casino where I've ... no matter how many cuts I did behind the line. No one has ever given me a problem with that.[/nq]
The action line at my club is only a courtesy line, it is not binding on any action. This would, by the way, be considered a string bet where i play, as it is clearly not one motion. The INTENT of the rule is to prevent players from gauging reactions, and this would violate that intent.
[nq:1]The funny thing is last time I was there this kid had a habit of when the action is on ... up being a tell that I was able to use against him and steal a couple of small pots. Chris[/nq]
This is the biggest tell ever. All these stupid college kids do it at my club and i bet into them with anything. They almost always fold. Most of the regulars have picked up on this, too, but i use that as well, since i look like a regular college kid. When i have the goods, ill do this stupid intimidation play to coerce them into raising me. Works like a charm.
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FellKnight:

Speaking of which... I was sitting at a game last week and this guy tried to make a string raise. Another guy gets up and whips out a gun, saying "No string bets, ***!" The string raiser brings out a BIGGER gun and says "I RAISE, !!" Crazy stuff I tell ya.

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Peg Smith:

[nq:1]My contention is that it's not a single motion. It's basically the same as pulling your hand back because it affords you an opportunity to gauge your opponent's reactions.[/nq]
I'm with you, and if I were flooring I'd rule it a string bet. If the player wants time to decide what he's going to do, he should call "time" before making any motions at all, and then declare his action or make his action all at once.
Peg

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Wouldn't you call this a string bet?

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